Dec 21, 2022·edited Dec 21, 2022Liked by John P Sullivan
Many thanks, John. Interesting ideas! Do you think the Elohim are immortal? Or mortal with eternal souls? Or...?
Rather than passing away or leaving us, isn't it also possible that Yahweh-Jehovah re-located to a different region/country, where he presented a different identity/persona? It's something criminals often do!
Frustratingly, I can't find the reference now, but I'm sure I remember Luke presenting a reference to Osiris leaving Egypt and turning up in (?) Cyprus as Zeus, on his way to a new role on Olympus!
With regard to The Ark of The Covenant, the British forensic historians, Wilson and Blackett, claim that the Ark accompanied the so-called "Lost" Tribes of Israel on their migration across Europe under Brutus of Troy, arriving in South Wales around 500 BC:
<< Many thanks, John. Interesting ideas! Do you think the Elohim are immortal? Or mortal with eternal souls? Or...?
>>
These are really important questions, yeah. I don't think I have good answers on this. One thing that seems clear is that they live much longer than us. This would be a useful investigation in itself. My current focus on the Old Testament is only so helpful here, because it portrays only a single diety. But from Abraham to early in the book of Samuel, that must be something like a hundred human generations? Perhaps they are just long-lived. Perhaps they don't age, but can still die, like sharks or Tolkien's elves. Or perhaps they are truly immortal. Other mythologies have gods getting killed, so I would tend to rule out that third option, but I would have to look into it.
Your thought on eternal souls opens up a huge subject that I am unprepared to address well. I've heard from multiple sources that the Nephilim - children of human mothers and fallen angels - when killed, their spirits will stay and haunt the Earth. That sort of rings true to me, and I would sort of expect something similar of a dead Elohim. And perhaps they took on a less corporeal form through some other means than death. It seems unlikely they would have attained anything like Nirvana, given their rather unenlightened states of mind. But what do I know? And perhaps it was something else. Who is to say that this kind of spiritual immortality comes only from the Buddha way? The Elohim are quite different from modern humans in so many ways, and their paths to enlightenment could be unintelligible to us. I rather suspect something like this, and that the Archons of the New Testament are the less corporeal form of these former gods, angels and devils. (Another thing I am planning to research and write about.)
All that said, in some sense this is our world now, spiritually, and if humans choose to remake the spiritual contours of the Earth, the energetic traces of these dead gods could easily be completely erased. But yeah, in some ways it really feels like they are still with us, non-corporeally, putting us through the same tortures and enslavements. It's up to us to change that. I guess some of the early gnostic Christians were attempting to do just that.
<< Rather than passing away or leaving us, isn't it also possible that Yahweh-Jehovah re-located to a different region/country, where he presented a different identity/persona? It's something criminals often do!
>>
That definitely seems worth looking into. To be honest, I haven't really considered that before. I still haven't had a chance to listen to Luke's stuff, but I will soon. But either way, it does seem as though the humans and the Elohim used to directly, physically, interact in the past, and they no longer do. Have you read the final essay of the Yahweh series yet? I begin to develop some ideas there that need more work. Julian Jaynes [1] develops this idea that fascinates me about how the structure of the human mind changed somewhere in the final millennium B.C.E. Couple this with the idea of a holographic universe that I mention in that final essay: Our mental map of the world does not exist within our brains, but rather is overlaid directly on physical reality. Now, the corporeal Elohim could have been made corporeal to some extent with our own psyches, and when our brain structures changed, their form in the universe changed as well, becoming less corporeal and more spiritual or energetic.
Dec 23, 2022·edited Dec 23, 2022Liked by John P Sullivan
John, thanks for taking the trouble to write such a full reply to my scribbles.
As you say, these are big questions and I certainly don't pretend to have the answers. I am, however, sure that history is a set of lies written by the winners. I would include the Bible in that and, in the context of the New Testament, would view Rome as "the winners."
Withe regard to the lifespan of the Elohim, I don't remember how I know this, but my understanding is that ten human years is one day to them.
I'm not sure I'd agree that humans and Elohim no longer interact directly; but I do agree that the relationship has changed over the millennia. Call me a junk conspiracist, but there is to my mind clearly a hidden (El-ite?) hand controlling and manipulating human affairs today. Perhaps these days they work from the shadows?
As for the holographic universe, I do believe that the only thing that's real in the third dimension is our souls. We create the rest with our intent.
Thanks for the link. I will have a look at that, as well as read the final essay.
<< I'm not sure I'd agree that humans and Elohim no longer interact directly; but I do agree that the relationship has changed over the millennia. Call me a junk conspiracist, but there is to my mind clearly a hidden (El-ite?) hand controlling and manipulating human affairs today. Perhaps these days they work from the shadows?
>>
Yeah, I think the uppermost levels of the elite think (mostly correctly) that they are carrying on the work of the Elohim. They probably think they have Elohim blood, and they are probably right about that to some extent too. They probably imagine, in true cargo cult fashion, that they are working towards bringing the Elohim back to Earth. Sort of like the cultists in a Lovecraft story. That's my take anyway. I think they feed on the psychic after-images of the Elohim, and of course, they are quite good at producing new negative psychic energies with some of their ritualistic behaviors. Negative spirits feed on our fear, and other negative emotions.
I quite appreciate the conversation, and it helps me work some of these ideas out. Hopefully they will end up in an essay at some point, but for now, I'm good with the convo in the comments.
Many thanks, John. Interesting ideas! Do you think the Elohim are immortal? Or mortal with eternal souls? Or...?
Rather than passing away or leaving us, isn't it also possible that Yahweh-Jehovah re-located to a different region/country, where he presented a different identity/persona? It's something criminals often do!
Frustratingly, I can't find the reference now, but I'm sure I remember Luke presenting a reference to Osiris leaving Egypt and turning up in (?) Cyprus as Zeus, on his way to a new role on Olympus!
With regard to The Ark of The Covenant, the British forensic historians, Wilson and Blackett, claim that the Ark accompanied the so-called "Lost" Tribes of Israel on their migration across Europe under Brutus of Troy, arriving in South Wales around 500 BC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QyjHjTtozA&t=5369s
Wilson and Blackett have written extensively on the subject in these books:
The King Arthur Conspiracy
Moses In The Hieroglyphs
The Discovery of The Ark of The Covenant
The Trojan War of 650BC
Thanks for the fascinating discussion Tirion!
<< Many thanks, John. Interesting ideas! Do you think the Elohim are immortal? Or mortal with eternal souls? Or...?
>>
These are really important questions, yeah. I don't think I have good answers on this. One thing that seems clear is that they live much longer than us. This would be a useful investigation in itself. My current focus on the Old Testament is only so helpful here, because it portrays only a single diety. But from Abraham to early in the book of Samuel, that must be something like a hundred human generations? Perhaps they are just long-lived. Perhaps they don't age, but can still die, like sharks or Tolkien's elves. Or perhaps they are truly immortal. Other mythologies have gods getting killed, so I would tend to rule out that third option, but I would have to look into it.
Your thought on eternal souls opens up a huge subject that I am unprepared to address well. I've heard from multiple sources that the Nephilim - children of human mothers and fallen angels - when killed, their spirits will stay and haunt the Earth. That sort of rings true to me, and I would sort of expect something similar of a dead Elohim. And perhaps they took on a less corporeal form through some other means than death. It seems unlikely they would have attained anything like Nirvana, given their rather unenlightened states of mind. But what do I know? And perhaps it was something else. Who is to say that this kind of spiritual immortality comes only from the Buddha way? The Elohim are quite different from modern humans in so many ways, and their paths to enlightenment could be unintelligible to us. I rather suspect something like this, and that the Archons of the New Testament are the less corporeal form of these former gods, angels and devils. (Another thing I am planning to research and write about.)
All that said, in some sense this is our world now, spiritually, and if humans choose to remake the spiritual contours of the Earth, the energetic traces of these dead gods could easily be completely erased. But yeah, in some ways it really feels like they are still with us, non-corporeally, putting us through the same tortures and enslavements. It's up to us to change that. I guess some of the early gnostic Christians were attempting to do just that.
<< Rather than passing away or leaving us, isn't it also possible that Yahweh-Jehovah re-located to a different region/country, where he presented a different identity/persona? It's something criminals often do!
>>
That definitely seems worth looking into. To be honest, I haven't really considered that before. I still haven't had a chance to listen to Luke's stuff, but I will soon. But either way, it does seem as though the humans and the Elohim used to directly, physically, interact in the past, and they no longer do. Have you read the final essay of the Yahweh series yet? I begin to develop some ideas there that need more work. Julian Jaynes [1] develops this idea that fascinates me about how the structure of the human mind changed somewhere in the final millennium B.C.E. Couple this with the idea of a holographic universe that I mention in that final essay: Our mental map of the world does not exist within our brains, but rather is overlaid directly on physical reality. Now, the corporeal Elohim could have been made corporeal to some extent with our own psyches, and when our brain structures changed, their form in the universe changed as well, becoming less corporeal and more spiritual or energetic.
[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22478.The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_the_Bicameral_Mind
John, thanks for taking the trouble to write such a full reply to my scribbles.
As you say, these are big questions and I certainly don't pretend to have the answers. I am, however, sure that history is a set of lies written by the winners. I would include the Bible in that and, in the context of the New Testament, would view Rome as "the winners."
Withe regard to the lifespan of the Elohim, I don't remember how I know this, but my understanding is that ten human years is one day to them.
I'm not sure I'd agree that humans and Elohim no longer interact directly; but I do agree that the relationship has changed over the millennia. Call me a junk conspiracist, but there is to my mind clearly a hidden (El-ite?) hand controlling and manipulating human affairs today. Perhaps these days they work from the shadows?
As for the holographic universe, I do believe that the only thing that's real in the third dimension is our souls. We create the rest with our intent.
Thanks for the link. I will have a look at that, as well as read the final essay.
Thanks again!
<< I'm not sure I'd agree that humans and Elohim no longer interact directly; but I do agree that the relationship has changed over the millennia. Call me a junk conspiracist, but there is to my mind clearly a hidden (El-ite?) hand controlling and manipulating human affairs today. Perhaps these days they work from the shadows?
>>
Yeah, I think the uppermost levels of the elite think (mostly correctly) that they are carrying on the work of the Elohim. They probably think they have Elohim blood, and they are probably right about that to some extent too. They probably imagine, in true cargo cult fashion, that they are working towards bringing the Elohim back to Earth. Sort of like the cultists in a Lovecraft story. That's my take anyway. I think they feed on the psychic after-images of the Elohim, and of course, they are quite good at producing new negative psychic energies with some of their ritualistic behaviors. Negative spirits feed on our fear, and other negative emotions.
I quite appreciate the conversation, and it helps me work some of these ideas out. Hopefully they will end up in an essay at some point, but for now, I'm good with the convo in the comments.